Well HOW INTERESTING!!! The new county director of planning is from Pasadena, doesnt think much about improving the business district for the local businesses and wants to give us outside national chain businesses, something the Altadena community has been VERY clear it does not want.

As to parking he is willing to work with the local business community? well over a decade ago the Altadena Town Council, the Altadena Chamber of Commerce joined together and requested a parking overlay that would count all spaces on Lake in common so we could expand SMALL LOCAL businesses. The county hired a consultant who decided there was no future in our local business district, and that it should be replaced with dense housing and nodes on the corner with national chain stores. Hmmmm all sounds familiar.....And THEY DID identify properties to take for parking lots in that report.

Mr. Bruckners vision for Altadena is one that his former employer Pasadena has attempted to foist on us for decades as a part of their larger Pasadena empire and is one this community has specifically rejected over and over. He needs to understand, HE IS THE SERVANT, the PEOPle are his master, not the other way around.

I personally have been blogging about improvement for our North Lake Business District for 3 years now, yet I've never heard of Mr. Bruckner. Now that I've been introduced to him via this article, I'm more than happy to share my thoughts with him.

In this article, Mr. Bruckner states the difference between Altadena and the more commercially successful foothill cities of Sierra Madre and La Canada are "that those communities are more isolated than Altadena, which has a thriving commercial area next door in Pasadena". When I've talked about our lack of success in the past, I've been told those other towns are thriving because they have direct freeway access, unlike Altadena. They are certainly NOT isolated in the sense Altadena is. We need a healthy, relevant mix of retail and businesses up here that would alleviate the need for our residents to drive down the hill into Pasadena and its surrounds for their shopping needs. I get the feeling that Mr. Bruckner would rather have our shopping dollars benefit Pasadena, rather than Altadena.

As for the parking situation, talking of incursion into residential neighborhoods is ridiculous. What we could have here is a median down the middle of the street to help mitigate the high speed of traffic on North Lake Ave., which one of the main killers of business. We need a more pedestrian-friendly area in which to shop! There has been an unused lot on Mariposa that could be used for a parking but it remains vacant why?

I also need to add that during the past 3 years we've owned our store, I've spoken to hundreds of residents who definitely want more shopping options here. They don't want to have to drive down to Pasadena when they could be shopping locally. There is an influx of new residents in Altadena who feel that their needs are not being served. To suggest that we may actually be over-retailed is laughable. Even according to the older demographics I've studied, there are enough people with enough money to support a thriving retail & business district here on upper North Lake Avenue.

Now is the time to act to improve Altadena's North Lake Business District. It will never be more necessary than now, or more cost-effective. The County needs to take note that they will seriously miss the opportunity it has now if they don't act NOW.

Lori- Well i've been talking to Altadenans about the business district for some quarter century now and let me tell you NOBODY is happy having so few shopping choices here in town and being forced because of the County of Los Angeles and the insensitive way it regulates Altadena to have to go down the hill to Pasadena to shop, If Bruckner believes we need to shop in Pasadena and forget about a vibrant shopping district here, he needs to shop for another job.

Altadenans want to shop here. we want to dine out here. We have waited for 25 years for the County to keep its promises to revitalize the center of our town under the old community plan, now they want to write us a new one with no promises at all. GOVERNMENT MUST BE THE SERVANT NOT THE MASTER. BRUKNER MUST LISTEN AND CHANGE OR GO

Lori and Steve- Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I believe you are both right that people want more local shopping choices. I think, as in most things, the county will be receptive only when they get a groundswell of activism pointing towards a definitive goal.

I was also surprised by R. Bruckner's contention that Altadena is over-retailed, though I would also note I think he is a very smart guy, and open to ideas from the public. He dealt with a very engaged and critical Pasadena public that was divided on a lot of issues, probably a lot more so than people are in Altadena. I think he and others in the county would be responsive towards supporting more retail in Altadena if nudged in that direction.

Dan- I agree that most Altadenans want more shopping. I could not disagree more that Mr. Bruckner did well for the community in Pasadena. He was excellent at taking factions and keeping them divided so that he could proceed in the interests of various developers. He is smart like a fox. I dont think I could say he is open to anything from the public.

As to the County being receptive, a decade ago we had that groundswell and they issued a report from a consultant with what is basically the plan Bruckner has presented to you. The Community was outraged. Sussy Nemer reassured everyone from me to Ken Balder that this was NOT what the County had in mind. Yet oddly enough, here is this plan the County already knows is unacceptable rearing its ugly head. And you are right, alas, the only way the County ever listens is if Altadenans raise a huge army of angry villagers bearing pitchforks ect.

Over the years I've had extensive talks with Paul Novak and Sussy and often they have reassured me that the Supervisors office really wants to work with the Altadena community on relaxing the parking and allowing small eateries and businesses and so on, but nothing ever goes forward. Having to always start a groundswell and then always have to deal with the nits in the Chamber of Commerce and the realtors who run the ATC about not going through channels when you have for years and all the backlash just to get the simplest sanest thing done in Altadena is just crazymaking after a piece.

I left you more details of the long struggle but it seems like only a small amount is allowed. we should meet sometime, i can give you TONS of background on this and many other issues.

I was shocked when I read this article, he clearly does not know what is going on in Altadena and what we need. For starters we need the parking and traffic problems on North Lake dealt with, whether this is done via re-striping or a median being put in, something needs to be done. Once that is dealt with we need more retail here, from small shops to national chains. I would love to see a Starbucks or similar chain put a store up on North Lake somewhere, it would be a anchor to draw people to the area benefiting all the businesses in the area. We also need a better option then Ralph's as it is clear they are never going to come through and upgrade it. Anyone remember the plans they had to put a Fresh Faire or the other remodel plans they had? Nothing except small updates in the existing store were done, so the majority of folks go shop at other locations.

On thing I did agree with him on is a need for more housing in Altadena, more specifically though affordable housing. We need something like the Allen-Brigden condos on Allen. I am sure most people here have seen them driving by, but did you realize they were work/live? The front units have comercial downstairs for an office to run your business. The back units were sold to moderate income families in the area. Could you imagine a similar development on the Altadena Nursery site? It would revitalize that area.

Daniel

While I didn't read a comment referencing "national chain business" for Altadena, (which we already have in Panda, Jack in the Box, Quiznos, various banks, Ralphs, Rite Aid etc.) having a nat'l/regional business isn't going to kill all local businesses in Altadena.
-A franchise of a nat'l/regional chain could be owned/operated/run by Altadena residents. I'm not saying the whole town should turn into nat'l accounts, but they do c0-exist with local businesses (i.e Jack is across from Everest, Ralphs is across from Happy Days, Panda is across from Jims).
- I believe that Altadena chooses to support businesses that meet the needs/wants of the community. I see a lot of check cashing (I think the one next to Pizza Joe's on Lake closed), nail salons, churches (understand they're not retail) & liquor stores. I can only surmise the community wants these businesses in town as they are still open.
- Attracting new businesses can be tough. County gov't can be a roadblock with permits (a proposed Italian rest. never opened on Lake due to parking permit issues). Opening a retail/food business is a big risk to the operator. Improvement costs, permits (and their fees), inspections, parking not to mention hoping the community will support it have to be taken into consideration. It would be a good idea (again) to discuss ideas on ways the county can help "ease" some of the restrictions and offer incentives to attract new business/retail in our area.
A "nit" from the Chamber

Hi All

Lots of good thoughts here. I totally agree about the need for county to get involved in the parking issue. I think the North Lake Avenue area in Pasadena has similar problems. Perhaps there is a joint solution.

Steve, I'd be glad to meet with you, and we probably could talk a lot more about Bruckner's tenure in Pasadena. I get what you are saying there, but in Pasadena I found that factions have been divided on so many issues in such a way that there is no way to reconcile them, and city officials get caught in the middle. I do know there are plenty of community people who did not like Bruckner's tenure in the city, but I think it has more to do with the fact that people who are opposed to larger density developments in central Pasadena are unhappy in general with that city's planning policies over the last decade and half.

Ed- In Altadena the County has created this horrible business climate. It is almost impossible to open anything on Lake, due not only to the Counties issue with parking, but their totally bizarre refusal to have any kind of one stop program for residential or commercial development.

When I did the drawings for the Echo Diner, when I had to resubmit I had to spend 4 hrs driving from County office to office to deliver plans. Three departments wanted the plans labeled and drawn differently, so every single small change demanded three sets of drawings and three different legends be changed. Then none of the departments spoke to each other, and trying to get a hold of say the lady who runs diner approval for the Health Department on the phone was just not possible, so you had to drive to her office and wait for a couple hours to see her. Totally nuts. One thing Pasadena does right is they have a one stop for commercial. You can actually get people on the phone to answer questions about issues they have with your plans. The County is impossible to get any answers out of. Its crazy.

The only national chain I can think of that we need is PETCO..... :>

Dan- Mid week next week is good. The people dissatisfied w/ Bruckner in Passadena should be. He worked directly to undermine a City General Plan that was worked out with a great deal care by hundreds of Pasadena Citizens. Working to directly defeat will of the people,can only lead to breakdown of confidence in government.

I could imagine an area revitalization that would mix residential with retail and and I'm not opposed to that idea, as long as the Webster's complex remains intact. It's a concept that works all across the country and has worked as well at Playa Vista. I have no problem with a national chain opening here, but my vision has always been Altadena for Altadenans. What we need is funding availability to make that possible and we need our community to come together to support it.

In argument with Ed, I don't believe that the proliferation of nail salons, check cashing stores and churches correctly reflects the needs/wants of the community. I'll reiterate that I've spoken to enough local residents in the past 3 years to know it's not what the majority here want. What they want is easy access to fresh, healthy food; a nice shopping area and the addition of more (healthy) restaurant choices. Most are waiting anxiously to see where the Arroyo Food Coop will be opening up.

I don't know why people think of national chains as large box stores or that we would turn into Old Town. There are a lot of national franchises that could be an anchor to draw people to North Lake, think Noah's Bagels or Seattle's Best Coffee, Cupcakes, etc. any of these smaller ones would work great up here. We need something that is recognized easily so that it draws people in then they can see all the other stores in the area. For example look at Sierra Madre or Monrovia they have a nice mix of small locally owned stores and national chains that draw people there. Something like that would work for us once we get the traffic and parking problems resolved. Then we could work on the atmosphere of the area, new street lights, landscaping, store fronts etc. However this needs to be a public private partnership, with the county working hand and hand with the local business owners.

Daniel

@ Harlow- Its about the multiplier. Little League teams, donations to schools, participation in civic life, engagement as a place that matters. National chain franchise owners do NOT engage in with the same depth as do small local business owners. Most of us long term Altadena residents want the services of these businesses that existed here until white flight, but we also want them back on terms that are not extractive. This is why we specifically do not want national chains like they have in Pasadena. We have limited real estate for commercial and we want the best return for all of Altadena, not the County Coffers or the profits a out of towners . Its about maximum multiplier, maximum community benefit.

The amenities you a re talking about, hundreds of volunteers spent tens of thousands of hours working that out in the Altadena Community Plan Village Concept that the County of Los Angeles has ignored for 25 yrs and that Bruckner specifically attacks and denigrates. The Counties idea of "working with the Businesses" has been to say "You want help for your struggling business? We will erect a Special District and raise your taxes to help you" Naturally the over taxed and struggling business owners don't really see that as a good idea and greet it with outright hostility. Imagine.

But we do need a County government that WORKS FOR US, for a change and doesnt think we are their SERFS. While they never say that out loud, every action and reaction displays this attitude

I agree with my fellow Altadena commenters except for one thing: I have no use for national chains. I don't believe in fairy-tales, and I don't believe in magical do-gooder franchises, devoting resources to the betterment of our community.
I spend energy, time and money, patronizing locally-owned shops, wherever I can find them, including Lake Ave and elsewhere in Altadena. I am dedicated to progressive ideals. So, why would I toss that commitment out the window, just to save ten minutes, two bucks or a little sweat?
I can mail a letter, support my community, visit neighbors, burn fat, build muscle, and get a dollop of anti-oxidants with my lunch; just by biking, walking or riding the 267 bus over to Websters, Happy Days and Coffee Gallery.
Also, slow down the cars, trucks, and SUVs? By all means - I'm all for it! Even better: make it pedestrian, pedal, and shuttle friendly, too. How about a tree or two near the bus stops, eh?

Amen to Bev (and thank you!), but I also hear what Dan Harlow is saying. There are national franchises that could be owned by a local resident and serve as an anchor for the other businesses. But if Altadena doesn't want (more) franchises, then our existing independently owned businesses will need help and incentives to become anchors themselves. I believe that this is possible because I've spoken to many, many people who feel the way Bev feels.

Steve is correct about donations, though. Locally owned businesses donate much more than corporate businesses, particularly to local charities, non-profits, civic related functions and schools. In fact, our store's business plan encompasses charitable giving as one of it's core principals. Now I just wish the economy would let us give more.

Yes Bev - thank you I wish more folks were like you. As you noted I think we would all love to have North Lake be more pedestrian friendly as it is a nightmare right now in many aspects.

Thank you Lori, I would love to see local businesses like yours become their own anchors drawing not only locals but those from surrounding areas to it. There are several stores in La Canada, Sierra Madre, Montrose and Monrovia like this where they draw people from the surrounding areas. Think Flintridge Books, Vromans, Flowering Tree, etc. these are all great local stores that draw people to them. Right now though with the current economic environment and consumer tastes I think we need a bit of a kickstart and one or two anchor stores that have brand recognition would hopefully do it, well along with fixing the traffic and parking issues of course.

Daniel

Dan-

The anchor store strategy sounds logical. It never seems to work. The anchor store does work to generate sales tax to the local government, but does not spill over sales to local merchants. In fact in the cities that you cite as models, the national brands showed up AFTER the local community revitalized. They were not the engine for revitalization, they took advantage of it after it happened. I have studied the economics of Southern California business districts for 25ys, cant identify one place where the national anchor chain drove revitalization of the small business sector. Can you identify one? I'd like to study it . I can name PLENTY of locations where the local small business community stuck it out in the hard times, began to revitalize a community and the National chains/big boxes came. In about 30% of the cases the national chain/big box did not kill but did not in any way aid the local business. In the other 70% or so of cases the national chains/big boxes totally steam rolled and destroyed opportunity for those locally owned small businesses.

But we need to focus on attracting small local unique stores and eateries that people will travel to. Here EVERY business needs to be a regional draw in order to survive. It has to be unique and it has to be excellent. something like maybe a woman oriented veggie/health food eating place with a chiropractor, massage therapist and aroma therapist upstairs or adjacent..Basically where are the markets no one is serving.

WOW I cut 1200 words out of that last response. Really difficult to discuss complex issues like development here!

Bev- Trees , sidewalk furniture and traffic calming are all in the Village concept in the Community Plan the County adopted but never actually did anything about. the same Village concept that Bruckner seems to snicker at here. Of course that concept has worked in Monrovia, La Crecenta, and every redevelopment that has worked in California since Gharadelli Square was revitalized in the early 1960's in San Francisco.

Any chance we will ever see sidewalks or at least curbs and street improvements in the north western area of Altadena ?

@ Clare- The issue of curbs and sidewalks comes up every few years. Bringing up this issue is an EXCELLENT way to pack the Altadena Town Council meetings..Generally there will be four or five people in favor of sidewalks and twenty five to fifty very angry people opposing sidewalks and curbs. Thats the history anyway.

Who is Richard Bruckner and how do we fire him? How heartening to hear he's not in favor of replacing blight, he just wants bigger and better blight. And how right he is, a small town can't have enough industrial buildings.

I don't remember that he ever knocked on my door to ask whether I wanted a quaint main street with more shopping options. And he certainly didn't knock on the door of anyone else who lives in Altadena. Very kind of him to presume we're thrilled to make the daily drive up and down the desolation that is most of Lake.

We want someone to reach out to the merchants who are trying to make a difference -- Webster's, Coffee Gallery, the art gallery, the hardware store. They are waging a very tough battle, made almost impossible by county officials who see Altadena as a dumping ground for soulness office buildings and more apartments.

To say we don't want our share of pretty and quaint because Pasadena is down the hill -- I fail, utterly fail to see his logic. But I sense it's self-serving; I know it's serving something other than Altadena.

Karin- The Patch is so wonderful!!! Other print nand electronic outlets never go looking around for news, these folks did, brought Bruckners totally uninformed views to light, and those got passed onto Mike Antonovich's office. Supervisor Antonovich has since made clear that Mr. Bruckner's views are NOT those of the County of Los Angeles and that the County of Las Angeles will be listening to Altadena residents. SO IF YOU WANT SIDEWALK FURNITURE, SMALL LOCAL BUSINESS, SPECIAL DISTRICT TO ALLOW SMALL EATERIES AND HOLD TE PARKING ALL IN COMMON, WRITE SUPERVISOR ANTONOVICH AND LET HIM KNOW.

I've been following this discussion with great interest. I want to get some more discussion of Altadena 's planning and business future in some upcoming articles. Please email me with any ideas at dan.abendschein@patch.com.

@Karin.....thank you!

Ed-

The Petco reference was no more in jest than yours that the Coffee Gallery have to deal with Starbucks, that Websters Pharmacy deal with Walgreens, that Foxs deal with an I Hop and that the few remaining local mechanics deal with Jiffy Lube and the Hardware store deal with a Home Depot (and BTW the typical SO CAL constellation around Home Depot is a TGI Fridays, a PETCO and a StarBucks) We have a fragile business community who have struggled outright contempt and derision from the governing entity, and yet who have always paid their taxes. To encourage subsidized national chains to come in to destroy them (and the national chains are big old welfare queens who always get some kind of outrageous abatement the local tax paying guys cant get) and to do so while sitting on a Chamber of Commerce Board that is supposed to advocate for them is an well, they will ban me if I say what it is.

@ Ed each of those anti local business proposals I have mentioned have been championed by the Altadena Chamber in the not very distant past. So when I hear a present Chamber member advocating again for national chains, I naturally believe he has no real interest in local businesses except to hustle a membership and get them to buy drinks at Camber events and then go try to find national chain stores to compete with them. thats the WELL EARNED reputation the Altadena Chamber has..

Ed- and most of your present ACC Board member are the past ACC members. I dont care about the song and dance, I look to the policies that are attempted. The only time the ACC every gave a good gosh about building this communities businesses Since Edna Smith resigned from the Board in the 70's was when Dave Smith was in charge. Before that and since its been a hide bound drinking club.

Steve-

What do you suggest that can be done to help local businesses? You state you have studied local economies for over 25 years, then you should have some pretty good ideas and can tell us plans that have worked. From what I understand you also were on the Town Council for over 17+ years. So what polices and programs did you help implement over those years that worked? What was done during those years that did not work? So that the same mistakes are not made again, as clearly mistakes were made since we don't have a thriving local business community like other small cities around us.

We need ideas and plans to help local business now, not arguing and accusations.

To kick off a list of ideas (in no particular order)-
1- We need a franchise that is recognizable to draw people to north lake and get them there to explore.
2- A business a week should be profiled on one of the local news sources (hint hint Dan). The fact is many locals don't know what is available to them locally today.
3- A survey needs to be done to find out where people shop now, wants, etc. the results should be made public. This is something I could help lead up.
4- We need a workshop on for businesses on marketing locally, similar to the social media one Lori held.
5- ATC/Chamber needs to start working with the county again to deal with the traffic issues on Lake.
6- The Chamber should look into joining the American Independent Business Alliance.

These are only a start.

Daniel

Bravo, Dan! I've advocated the ACC joining the AMIBA since I was elected to the Board and have given information from their website to them in hopes of accomplishing this. Towns and cities across the nation have had success with their shop local programs, which I've detailed over the years in our store's blog at http://www.webstersfs.blogspot.com Anyone needing to know where I stand on improving our store and our community's North Lake Business District should read it.

Everyone needs to call his office and tell him how off base he is on this subject. Altadena needs a town center, and the perfect place is Lake and Mariposa.

@Gretchen- The really GREAT thing about that is that the planning has already been done, all we have to do is get the County to implement the plan.

@Daniel- Well of course I'd suggest most of the stuff the ACC has already ignored that I have suggested year after year till I just couldn't bother anymore.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing though, even more important than the Lake /Mariposa Village concepts would be to get the County to hold all the available parking on lake in a common pool when granting permits and to consider probable hours of usage for those spaces like they did at Lincoln Crossing. The County Parking regulations are the first thing destroying Altadena businesses.

The second major issue is tougher to solve in that Altadena businesses are paying rent that far and exceeds what it should be compared to the existing customer shopping habits, foot traffic and amenities. Close to 30% over true value. Don't believe me? Compare to La Crescenta. You can't prosper at those rates. Of course if the Land lord can get it, what does he care if the business survives or not?

Third, the stingy County of Los Angeles is going to have to invest in improvement. Every City that has a thriving shopping center has massive civic subsidy. The County should start by doing what Pasadena, Monrovia, Sierra Madre, La Crescenta, La Canada, Burbank, South Pasadena, Arcadia and so on do and SUBSIDIZE the Chamber. Yes you read that correctly.

Those other places pay rent in the business area for the chamber, and pay for at least one full time and two part time employees. They pay for graphics production and multi color printing too.

I guess hte other thing I'd try would be to orient Altadena Businesses towards hiking, camping, mountain biking and equestrianism. Of course this would require working with the USFS to open and build more trails campgrounds and resorts. The USFS has almost single handed destroyed the economy of this town that was founded on East Coast tourism and sustained by local mountaineering until the 2 was built at LCF and the USFS began massive trail and campground closings in the late 1950's. I almost had Sport Chalet relocated to Altadena, but the LAC CDC actually ran them off. Morons.

And of course there is still invest in the Lake/Mariposa village, some traffic calming/street parking on Lake, better lighting, banner poles. Areas near the traffic calming for people to sit at and say drink coffee, eat ice cream or read ...

But really, until the County invests in Altadena and makes changes to how it is going to administrate the zoning code, there is nothing viable that anyone can do. Even those of you who are fixated on the wrong answer,National Chain stores, can't get that without the County changing the parking regulations here and making direct investment of taxpayer dollars to that business.

Whatever we need to do, I'm prepared to help with it. But the very first thing we need is to band together and make our voice heard.

Lori, Steve L, and everyone else who feels this way,

How do we mobilize?? Why don't we start meeting and figure out how to get our voices heard?

blogging is fun but won't get the job done.

We can definitely meet, gather signatures on a petition, whatever it takes to get the County's attention (if we don't already have it). However, don't underestimate the power of blogging. Look at what we accomplished for the Hahamongna Watershed Park recently. It can be a very powerful tool.

I'd suggest direct contact with Mr. Bruckner's office/dep't. Direct contact let's him know that there is some sense of urgency. The fact that someone is calling/emailing him directly puts the burden of a reply upon him/his dep't.
His email address is: rbruckner@planning.lacounty.gov
His phone # is 213 974-6401.

This is all public information that I found online so I don't feel compromised to post it. I would only suggest that if anyone chooses to make contact that you think through what you want to communicate before reaching out. Well thought out communication will likely result in a reply. I'll make sure to bring this up at the next Chamber meeting as well.

OK Those of us who want to meet Friday 9am @ the Coffee Gallery....

I'd love to join, but getting here at 9:00 am is impossible for us at the present time. Our commute time is @ l hr. most days and we have a 14-yr old pup that has special needs right now. If we could please pick a time later in the day, we'd be able to join in.

I emailed yesterday and havn't heard anything back. When I called his secretary gave me the above email address.

Don't give up hope. The Board of the Chamber of Commerce, along with members of the Town Council, met with Mr. Bruckner, the Planning Dept. and Supervisor Antonovich's office in mid-November and found them more than receptive to improvements here. I personally found Mr. Bruckner to be not only very nice, but attentive to what we were saying. We will be following up with the County and Mr. Bruckner very soon. I'm very encouraged and feel that we may finally be getting some much needed attention.

I love living in Altadena but am dismayed by the lack of businesses-- which I would frequent--if they were around. Mr. Bruckner's statement "If you take most Altadena homes and look at the mile circumference around them, I suspect they may actually be overly retailed" doesn't represent reality for most Altadena residents.

I don't think many people would support tearing down homes in residential areas to make way for parking or new businesses. Why does Altadena have to settle for "either-or"?

Its obvious to me as a 25-year Altadena resident, that there are many buildings on our main commercial streets (ie: Lake and Fair Oaks Avenues) which appear to be under utilized. And, in geographic terms, neither Sierra Madre or La Canada are further removed from Pasadena than is Altadena.

I would WELCOME not having to drive miles to East Pasadena, Pasadena or beyond for the smallest errand/ purchase. Where do I sign the petition?