Sounds like my kind of day in The City. Where do we meet? You always make me laugh. "It's true, my heart weeps for Sierra Madre during the cold winter months as they scratch the frozen earth for a few wizened yams. But I digress." Be careful what you wish for at El Patron - the county wants to take down 75% of all window signs!

This is brilliant. You know how I feel about this entire situation. At one point they wanted to tear down Pasadena's Old Town buildings -- who in the world would want to revitalize that old hole when people could just go to the Glendale Galleria? And if preservationists in South Pas hadn't stepped in and actually changed the way the city was planned, there would be no Mission Street and we'd have a heck of a lot more empty office space in ugly 70s strip malls instead of a thriving local economy and a great town center.

That was fun to read! I don't know how anyone in Altadena can survive without a Trader Joe's. As a Pasadenan, I envy you your trails and your lower property taxes, but at least I have three TJ's to choose from.

Fun read, Karin, and bitingly true. Why can't we have a lively, pretty town center that would give Altadena residents a sense of pride? Oh that's right.....we need to live further "away" for that.

Scott and I are working hard to become one of those nice boutiques....a little difficult when you have to change mindsets and have very little cash. Don't give up hope yet, though.....

Brilliant! Sounds funny but it is so true. With all the creative residents that live in Altadena there surely could be some wonderful visions of a town center for our community. I would love to see the outpouring of ideas.

Also, talking about Rit Aid, when I have asked them where their shopping carts are, their sad reply is "we only have one, all the others have been stolen ." I asked "could the company install those safety guards so the carts can only be taken so far?" The reply to this was "we used to have them but they removed them." At that point even I was at a loss for words.

It is sad to me that Ralphs and Rite Aid must think we are a community of losers. Why else would they allow their stores to become so run down and poorly stocked? They constantly upgrade all their stores in surrounding communities while their Altadena stores are left to decay. What could be their reasons? It's a shame!

Holly has a great idea -- Altadena has even more artists than thrift shops. I wish some of them (artists, not thrift stops) would sketch out a few ideas and show everyone what we could have, given a little effort and investment.

And if we did get a Trader Joe's, maybe Ralphs would slap a coat of paint on the eyesore of a building and sweep the parking lot once in awhile.

Brilliant Karen!!! And I'm sure, right on!!!

Great article, Karen. And I, for one, think we need a better grocery store than, as we call it, "The Ralphs That Time Forgot." They were going to expand south at one time, but then the grocery strike happened, and once again, Altadena lost out. I heard there was a rumor a while back for a Fresh & Easy to go in just south of Ralphs. That would be perfect for our little town. Gourmet and inexpensive.
And speaking of Rit Aid, there are 2 hidden gems in that shopping center - Bulgarini Gelato and Nancy's Pastries. People from all over come to Altadena for those shops.

All,
Last night I read all 74 pgs of the "Altadena Community Plan". Here's the link: http://planning.lacounty.gov/view/altadena_community_plan/
It offers details of a revitalized central shopping area on/around Lake Ave. The "plan" was from 1986! The county, citizens, local business, planners etc. had a part in putting it together.

My comments after reading this:
-what was ever accomplished against this plan?
-was it ever "agreed upon"?
-what/who held up the revitalization plans?
-perhaps Lincoln Crossing came out of the plan but if so, it was 20+ yrs later.
-there appears to be provisions to create a "village like" atmosphere in/around the Lake Ave shopping district. Very likely, tasteful signage would be allowed under "the plan".
-300 residents were survyed.
a. 36% did grocery shopping here.
b. 8% did "other" shopping here.
WHY?
-type of store(s) they wanted weren't here
-lack of product selection
-prices too high
(we hear similar comments 25 yrs later)

Also, $190MM was spent by Altadeneans on retail purchases but only $35MM was spent IN Altadena...$155MM was spent outside of Altadena.
There are very few recognizable names, to me, of the people who participated in putting together the plan. 25yrs is a generation ago but it really doesn't seem as if much was done to put the plan into action. Maybe things are different this time around????

Read up for yourself and maybe then we'll have something to wave at the county planning offices.

Nicly said. Of course Bruckner thinks everyone should go to Pasadena to shop. Guess who he worked for before moving to his current position?

I would love it if Ralph's moved out of their current location on N. Lake and Trader Joe's moved in. I bet I'm not alone.

All,
Check out the County's regional planning site for the "Altadena Community Plan". Here's the link http://planning.lacounty.gov/view/altadena_community_plan/
It's 74 pgs so be prepared to do some reading.....
Put together in 1986, it details a plan to revitalize shopping districts around Altadena and create a "village like" area around the North Lake business/shopping district. It also addressed the east & west side shopping/business areas.

I don't know if much was accomplished against the plan (Lincoln Crossing maybe?) and some park improvements etc.
What's interesting is that a survey of 300 residents back in 1986 revealed that:
-36% did grocery shopping in Altadena, 8% did "other" shopping here
-$35MM was spent in Altadena by residents for retail purchases BUT $155MM was spent outside of Altadena.
WHY?
-survey said....type of store they wanted wasn't here....lack of product selection....prices too high.
Very similar to responses we hear today.....25 yrs later.

What/who kept the plan from moving forward or, at least, having more concepts implemented? The plan was put together by various county agencies, planners, and the "Altadena Betterment Committee" (I see a couple of current residents on this list).

It's interesting to see that some issues 25 yrs ago are the same that we hear about today. Read the plan and then maybe we can start contacting the Mr. Bruckner to act upon it.

When I moved to the north edge of Pasadena not far from Lake a few years ago, I was sorely disappointed, and perplexed, by the lack of good eateries and quaint shops on North Lake. After reading the recent Patch article about Bruckner and the subsequent comments, I know why. It's great to see your piece, written with your usual biting wit, bring the issues into sharper focus. I'm hopeful that these recent articles will help to change things.

I'm also hopeful the Arroyo Food Co-op will choose an Altadena location.

Surely, the control of our town should be in the hands of those who live here, not in the hands of county bureaucrats.

Love it when you take off the gloves. But what about Bulgarini? Have they left the hood?

Karen- Many artists, Architects and civic minded citizens worked together in the past on these issues. The Altadena Community Plan (long version not just the map) is full of all kinds of site plans, elevations, and so on for the Village Concept. Diverse groups of Altadenans worked together on this project for about five years. The County adopted it and for the last quarter Century has done not a thing to do it. Nothing.

The Altadena Town COuncil and Altadena Chamber of Commerce came together did a study (1998-2001)of how many parking spaces there were on Lake and asked the county to consider them in common for permits for small eateries and so on. No dice. they hired a consultant who came back with five stories of residential with occasional national chain store on some corners as what should be done. That plan went no place, but Bruckner seems to have read THAT one.

Lincoln Crossing was originally designed by Eric Lloyd Wright with what was at the time cutting edge green technology and planning concepts. The County CDC through private meetings with the developer threw over all the work various community members did for the prior decade and all the work of planning and visioning because the CDC had its own plans and ideas about what Altadena could have and should have. the problem isnt the visioning abilities, desire, demographics of the community,and so on. the LOS ANGELES COUNTY GOVERNMENT is the problem.

Bulgarini Gelato is still there, as is Nancy's Pastries....agree that they're both hidden gems.

@Susan Campisi - you and I share the same hope. In fact, I was hoping that the old Hallmark store next door to us would still be available when the Coop was ready for a brick & mortar location. But alas, it's rented out now.

Karen-

CITYHOOD is the only real answer, but perversity of perversities, we can't have a city until we have enough sales tax income to afford it and we cant have enough sales tax income until we revitalize downtown, and the COUNTY WONT LET THAT HAPPEN. Are we having fun yet?

I have a close relative inside Ralph's. They refuse to upgrade. Why? because Altadenans may not then support their East Pasadena and La Canada stores and the La Canada store in particular is totally dependent on Altadena shoppers to survive. We should organize a community wide boycott of the whole chain.

Trader Joe's will not come here. When I was working as a volunteer on Lincoln Crossing I had extensive talks with every chain in SO Cal (Not that Sharon Warfield or the CDC employees ever did, I as a ATC and ACC member did- volunteer time) Trader Joe's is especially hostile to Altadena. Their property acquisitions guy outright told me the "Neighborhood is too dark". I thought he meant street lights at first....HOWS wanted to come here, but the CDC would not give them the same deal everyone else in that business gets so we got a fourth tier market at Lincoln Crossing.

As to what could have been... At one point at the end of his life I had John Lautner ( the World class Architect who invented Googie among other massive achievements) willing to design a three story parking garage with restaurant on top and shop at half of the first floor street level for the place on Mariposa where the always empty architecturally mundane Zen place now is. We needed the county to invest in the parking to make that happen. they refused unless they could tax the already struggling Altadena businesses in a special district. John so wanted to do one urban infill commercial that he was willing to do it for a insanely small fee. NOOOoooooo Not our County.

BTW- I did all this stuff for free for the community, trying to get a better supermarket, trying to get a development on Lincoln that would be a model fort eh 21st Century not a bad example of the middle of the 20th, trying to get a destination restaurant in town built by a world famous architect all for free, and almost always having to fight the other members of the Altadena Town Council and the Chamber of Commerce to do these and other things,Those organizations are a total waste of your time and controlled by people who think they must cower for scraps before Mike Antonovich to do or get anything. funny thing is , Antonovich would rather have an honest representation of this community and have it actively engaged.
If you want to work on these issues, AVOID the ALTADENA TOWN COUNCILand THE ALTADENA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE and start a broad based community based grass roots coalition that you can mobilize. Make sure to not let certain people in because they will "inform" on you to the people who for some reason are invested in nothing working here.

What a NOT FUN merry-go-round this is. Steve I can understand your frustration. I have felt this way for so long and now see "I am not alone!"

Well, hurray for the fact that people still care! I have lived here in Altadena since 1976 on W. Las Flores Drive, yes west of Fair Oaks. And I love it here! EXCEPT for the fact that there are a tiny amount of goods & services. I have watched places come and go, often lamenting the lack of retail, restaurants and entertainment. I am thrilled to see El Patron doing well, and Amy's too. The arrival of Super King is great! What is missing here seems to me to be a lack of cohesive, organized direction, and no focus at all. I'm chagrined to see store front churches in the Steve's complex and slated for the old Altadena Nursery site. A sadly merchandised thrift store as the anchor to the Webster's building breaks my heart. The proliferation of check cashing places, empty lots, & beauty/nail places (26 out of the 44 services in this directory), only serve to reinforce the mentality of what seems to be the expected outlook here. I went to a local neighborhood market recently and asked if the owner could carry more healthy alternatives, like cottage cheese and yogurt, and his response was, "black people don't like cottage cheese". WHAT? If you think about it, apparently that is the same shockingly bigoted attitude of Trader Joe's and Ralphs, and maybe the county supervisors too? I want to be part of a solution AND also use the lessons learned by Mr. Lamb and others who have been knocking on the door of opportunity only to have it slammed in their faces.

Your experience at whatever local market you were at sounds like out of the 1950's prejudice. How sad.

Holly -- I quite agree with you!

Right on, Leslie! Scott and I would love to be part of the solution, as well. Sad that we have people who think these check cashing places serve the community. Talk about being taken over by corporate stores.....these check cashing places are chains and are not independently owned. From what I understand, they're all farmed out from one corporation.

I shocked at the reply from Trader Joe's, having worked for them in the past. Their headquarters is in Monrovia, you know.....perhaps we should go talk to them.

I too have lived in Altadena since 1976 and have always loved it here. I have thought about moving though because I want to take a walk to stores, especially ones that sell fresh healthy food. I love my hikes and want to stay healthy so I can continue those walks.

Lori- I was pretty shocked too. Especially since the guy telling me my neighborhood was "too dark" had a Cantonese accent so thick I had to really work to understand him. I was so not expecting even a hint of racism from TJ's since I had served with Joe Colombe on Pasadena's Strategic Planning Committee back in the 80's but as you may know he long ago sold TJ's to a German outfit.......

But I really believe we can change Altadena for the better.

As to the "Black People dont eat cottage cheese" well amazingly enough Black people in Altadena do not fit any kind of stereotype. I know lots of local African-Americans who are Vegitarians, Vegans, fruitarians and my favorite folks to lunch with omnivores. I do know this however, At EVERY income level African-Americans spend 15% more on food, both at the market and dining out than their white counterparts. SO being in a neighborhood that has the highest density of African-Americans educated with masters degrees and above in the nation (That would be ALTADENA) should be a big BIG B I G plus for someone in the food business.

When i was trying to get good things into Lincoln Crossing one of the Companies I spoke with was Bob's Big Boy. After every superarket in So Cal except HOWS had said "Oh Hell NO" I was gun shy about sharing Altadena's racial breakdown. I sent Bob's all the current demographics. Their property management guy called and said "Hey where are the racial demographics?" I kind of fumbled about. He chuckled and said "It's OK we are from SO CAl, we know Altadena has a high Black population. They spend more than any other group at our establishments. We want them as customers AND employees. They were the most positive group I ever dealt with about Altadena. The County and Greg Galletley would not allow them to be an anchor by owning their store so they walked, but they wanted to be here. I'll always love Bob's for that

I'm not saying TJ's is the only option for a good town square, because it's not, but can you imagine what would happen if they took over that blight of a Rite Aid? I'd have to stand in line for my pistachio ice at Bulgarini's.

Steve,
It sounds as if you've previously had bad personal experiences with the ATC & Chamber. However, it's not a good enough reason to suggest that the community shy away from working with those organizations as the current make up of the Chamber has changed over the years.
The Chamber has only 9 Board members. 7 of them have only served for a couple of years. How can that consitute a "good 'ol boy" club?
It's easy to pick on a civic group and say they should/could do more to serve the community. Or, they did "this/that" years ago. The Chamber is always willing to help the community in which is serves. We may not have a vast amount of experience, but we do have passion as we all either live in, work in or live & work in Altadena.

Here's the link to the "Altadena Community Plan" from 1986. It's 74 pages. I've tried to post this a few times today but the site here wouldn't take it.
http://planning.lacounty.gov/view/altadena_community_plan/

http://planning.lacounty.gov/view/altadena_community_plan/

Dan - I've been trying to post a link to the Altadena Community Plan all day long but the site won't take it. Any thoughts?
Can you post links on here?

Thr u go. I hope the artists and folks like you get a say one day soon before your lovely community dries up and POOOOFFFF!

If the county's in charge and the county doesn't care, it sounds like Altadena needs a revolution.

@Ed- Here is the link you've been trying to put up: http://planning.lacounty.gov/view/altadena_community_plan/

Ed writes about it:

"It's 74 pgs so be prepared to do some reading.....

Put together in 1986, it details a plan to revitalize shopping districts around Altadena and create a "village like" area around the North Lake business/shopping district. It also addressed the east & west side shopping/business areas.

I don't know if much was accomplished against the plan (Lincoln Crossing maybe?) and some park improvements etc.

What's interesting is that a survey of 300 residents back in 1986 revealed that:

-36% did grocery shopping in Altadena, 8% did "other" shopping here

-$35MM was spent in Altadena by residents for retail purchases BUT $155MM was spent outside of Altadena.

WHY?

-survey said....type of store they wanted wasn't here....lack of product selection....prices too high.

Very similar to responses we hear today.....25 yrs later.

What/who kept the plan from moving forward or, at least, having more concepts implemented? The plan was put together by various county agencies, planners, and the "Altadena Betterment Committee" (I see a couple of current residents on this list).

It's interesting to see that some issues 25 yrs ago are the same that we hear about today. Read the plan and then maybe we can start contacting the Mr. Bruckner to act upon it."

Did I read Karen Bugge's article too hastily (in which case, I eat my subsequent words), or is there a glaring failure to mention the number of liquor stores in "Altadena Center"? or in Altadena in general? or, is that conjured up subtly (for me, anyway) by the mention of lottery tickets? aha?

@Ed- Sorry for the problems. Here is the link you asked about: http://planning.lacounty.gov/view/altadena_community_plan/

@Ed, believe it or not, I am having the same trouble you are posting that link on the site, and I have no idea why. I'm forwarding this to help.

One more shot... this is the planning document Ed is trying to link to for people to see the official county plan for Altadena:
http://planning.lacounty.gov/view/altadena_community_plan

Michelle, Dan often complains that I'm overly subtle.

Just as Reno calls itself The Biggest Little City In the World, I'm getting the idea after reading your articles that Altadena is the "Littlest City Next To A Great Big City In the World."

Richard Bruckner has revealed his patronizing attitude. He deserves to be under scrutiny. Among bureaucrats' many failings, they routinely refuse to recognize what happened before they arrived on the scene. Bruckner appears to be doing the same. I'm confident there is enough savvy and piss-n-vinegar amongst Altadenans to clue him in AND remind him what public service is all about.

Lol! I have no complaints about Karin's writing. Karin, I see your subtlety as a nice little quirk that I as an editor sometimes have to tweak.

@Michelle- I definitely don't see any "glaring failure" here... one could write an entire column on Altadena's liquor stores, but I don't think it was necessary to blatantly mention it in this column. Still, I had the same reaction to the lotto ticket, of thinking of area liquor stores, so there is a nice, subtle part of the column left totally intact.

Karin,

Enjoyed the article. It was entertaining and brought up some very good points, too.

I agree, Altadena deserves a Trader Joe's. I live in Burbank where there are plenty of grocery stores -- still, the Trader Joe's on East Alameda Avenue is very busy. So is the, almost in Burbank, Trader Joe's on Riverside Drive in Toluca Lake.. Shoppers like choices. Some things I buy at Ralph's and others I can only get at Trader Joe's.

Yeah, a Trader Joe's for Altadena -- and why not add some of those quaint eateries and speciality shops as well.

Ha. I think Rite Aid read your article. I was just there and they are fixing the E!

Here's an idea, If Ralphs won't clean up and update their store up here, and Trader Joes thinks it's too dark maybe we could at least have a Farmers Market once a week in the Rit Aid parking lot. Does anybody know how to arrange that? Who to call , etc...Or another possible location for something like this?

The Guy who owns the Rite Aid property actually has complete contempt for Altadena and wants to put up a storage facility there.

@ Ed- you are wrong about the ACC. You clearly don't know about how the door revolves there. If you look into it you will see a cluster of people who move on and off the Board, but no matter where they are really run it. I've been looking for twenty five years now. Call me in a decade and tell me whats what.

Dudley, if Rit Aid is fixing the E, does that make this a red-letter day?
Sandra, a farmer's market in the parking lot? Gosh, I'd love that...
Fronnie, thank you. I'm so glad you covered Michelle Huneven's event. I wanted to attend to tell her I still have her LAT piece about the duck she rescued in Chinatown. The page is held together with scotch tape because I've read it so many times.

Karin,

That's a great compliment to Michelle Huneven's writing. When you keep a story held together by scotch tape it must be terrific. Michelle's workshop was great. I hope to pop in on another one of her events in the future.

Also, the fact that Rit(e) Aid is fixing their sign is reflection on your terrific story!

Ed call me.

Here's the link to the Altadena Community Plan
http://planning.lacounty.gov/contact

Here's the link to the Altadena Community Plan - put together in/around 1986.
http: // planning .lacounty .gov /contact

I'm having problems posting the actual link. Copy and paste this but REMOVE all the BLANKS and you should be able to access the site.
It's 74pgs and has lotsa interesting information.

Thanks leslie, steve, ed and karin... ACC?/Eagles lodge/? I'll check it out. I'm new around here, but have a strong vested interest. I will look into the farmers market idea( it's a start at least). I am a person of strong persuasive attributes. Maybe I can get those old boys interested, blonde and cute may work, but I am also a hair stylist,(not in altadena ), we are like bar tenders... we have an innate gift of being able to understand many things, get stuff done, and keep our mouths shut. I'll keep you all posted :)

It's my understanding that any type of farmer's market must be held on privately owned land, and that's why it couldn't be located in the Rit Aid parking lot. I've also heard that Galloway Alley (the alley behind the Hardware Store) was a possible location but that didn't work out, either. I'd love to offer the Webster's parking lot for it, but unfortunately, we don't own it. Thank goodness for RIPE Altadena and Gloria Putnam & Steve Rudicel's market at the Zane Gray Estate!

I might be beating a dead horse here considering I just wrote an editorial advocating closing down the streets for a bike festival, but why not do that for the Farmer's Market? Obviously you can't shut down Lake, but you might be able to shut down a short stretch of Mariposa and hold the event right on the street, as they do in Montrose. You put up barriers on either end, and signs directing people over on Fair Oaks that there is no through access to Lake. You could direct overflow parking for people who can't find a spot on the street to go park at the community center or the library. Neither walk is excessive. On a Sunday morning, I think this would be minimally disruptive to people's lives, and once they got used to it, no one would even blink.

I also was wondering about Montrose's Farmer's Market? They have it in the street and isn't that public not private? I also heard that Farnsworth Park was a possibility. It would be SO well attended as it is very visible from Lake St. I heard there were objections but wondered why? It is a very large park. Seems like there would be room for many community activities. Also La Canada's Farmer's Market is in an area where folks can park, but the overflow moves onto the side streets because it is such a popular activity. I am amazed and pleased at all of the wonderful ideas presented as a result of this article. I hope that it becomes a jumping off point for improvements in Altadena. We deserve it.

The County won't let us close Mariposa. The Altadena Arts Coalition already tried that for our street fairs last year. Other places around Altadena have farmer's markets in the streets because they aren't an unincorporated part of the County, they are their own cities.

As for this being a jumping off point for improvements in Altadena, we need to get a lot more participation before the County will even blink in our direction. There are over 43,000 people as of the last count and probably many more than that now.....40 or 50 replies to this article isn't going to work. We need the majority in this town to come together to actually accomplish positive change.

A farmer's market is held in the parking lot, behind Burbank City Hall, every Saturday.There's some contact information for the market organizers on this Downtown Burbank events page
http://www.downtown-burbank.org/events.php

Also, there are two farmer's markets in nearby Glendale. One, on Thursdays at the Americana and a smaller one, on Saturdays, in Kenneth Village. I have shopped at the one in Kenneth Village, which is held in the middle of a blocked off street.

Hopefully, this helps in the research/efforts for a Farmer's Market in Altadena.

Hi, just wrote two comments to update everone and didnt realize they were too long and couldn't post. So for short, Thanks for feedback on farmers market...Talked to great person at the ATC which by the way communicates with ACC. They (ATC) are on the farmers market idea and may poss. have a location soon. We will be shoping organic and seeing each other in the no town-town, hopefully. Another note ...bad accident on my st. last nite...Mom and infant crossing at marked crosswalk on altadena and glenrose, hit by Suv, infant air lifted out, others taken to local hosp. Why Oh Why is there no stop sign at this intersection???ATC member gave me e-mail address to CHP person who could do something about this. Will keep in touch:)

Funny article.

That flea market at the lodge's parking lot on Woodbury is a great event. I bought garden tools and toys the last time at great prices. That location would be great for a farmer's market.

If we had more trendy shopping and dining then people would be posting negative comments about the crowds, noise and traffic. Yet, more places like the gelato place and Patron's would be good.

Altadena wants gentrifrication. It is doubtful that can happen in an unincorporated area governed by an apathetic county government. We would lose the great places to shop such as the flea market and the thrift stores if gentrification were successful.

So, is city-hood in the works? I grew up in a then unincorporated area of the county (West Hollywood), which has made big strides as a city.

I agree - it's too bad we don't have more "shopping" destinations, including more art space - especially since we hear that The Gallery at the End of the World is leaving us! Ben McGinty has worked extremely hard to instill a sense of community in the "town center" with his community nights out and the artists studio tours... his presence will be missed. As for Trader Joes - it would be delightful - but as was noted - we do have several of them within a 5 mile radius (thank goodness) still -something is needed - the Ralphs is a disgrace...it's a crime to see all those empty storefronts.
and buildings...

Dale- What Ralph's will understand is a effort tot organize Altadenans to not shop at their other locations. They are really being silly. Altadena has SO MUCH MORE liquid cash than LaCanada its a joke! The preconceptions they have are actually keeping them from making a mint on the store here.

Michele- Yep its a fourth tier store, but when compared to what we are getting at a so called first tier from Ralph's it's practically Gelson's.

Jean- Cityhood is not in the works, but it would make Altadena a much better community.

All- once again, the major single problem with business in Altadena is that the rent is high out of reason to the present opportunity. No one can survive long enough to make it with these high rental rates. When I as young (admittedly, long long ago) Altadena had a Baskin Robin's, three chain supermarkets, a sit down Chinese restaurant, two diners, a mens haberdasher, a childrens clothing store, two shoe repair shops, a shoe store, Fox's was open for dinner, two meat markets, several bakeries, Two Bar B Que take out places, and on and on.

Adjusted for inflation, there is more money in Altadena now than there was then. Corporations and businesses.need to get over the 1968-1974 era and realize this place is one of the best markets in the nation.

Steve, what has changed since Altadena was that way? Sounds like it used to be the way we'd like it to be now.

@ Holly We had a generation retire and die more or less as other people were freaking out that African-Americans were moving in so there was almost 20 years of no re investment. In the middle of that, the County overlayed Altadena with modern parking requirements, making the existing buildings more or less useless from a modern code standpoint. We would have to lose 2/3 of the buildings now here to have any of them used with the present parking codes. Of course these already developed buildings are too valuable to tear down for parking. Stalemate

IDEA: I was talking to a Commercial Real Estate Broker friend of mine today saying I couldn't understand how storefront churches could afford rent and businesses could not. She explained to me that Land Lords get a HUGE tax break for renting at a lower rate to not for profits. Hmmm
What Altadena wants are services from businesses like eateries, clothing shops, and so on.

Why not start a community based not for profit corporation to run those, employ people and train local kids in job skills, while also getting the rent reduction for the businesses and tax break for land lords?

Wow....I love this idea. How can this be looked into?

I'm working on it. Would love to have help. Need to find a good commercial tax person who will consultfree for now to get other clients later...

I really like your concept, Steve, and as you know, I've been working toward something similar since we opened. I'd really like to see all of our businesses cooperating together and working with our non-profits as well as cross-merchandising with each other. To put money where my mouth is, so to speak, we've been working with Christmas Tree Lane for almost a year now. Their products are available year round in our store and they receive 75% of the net proceeds. We are also working closely with Winsome's Pretty Woman, bringing some of their merchandise in so more shoppers will be exposed to what they offer. I believe that by working together, we can improve our business district here on North Lake.

I was in Pasadena Last night. As I drove down the hill I got really really pissed off when I came tot he area near Big Momma's. That had once been desolate. ten years ago Pasadena created a Special Zoning District that did waht we once tried to do in Altadena, held all the parking in common for permits. They also planted a street median and started a facade improvement program where the City would pay for painting and lighting improvements. Guess what? that once desolate area is THRIVING. If our Town COuncil and Chamber would stop busying themselves with who to suck upto in government and organize to get stuff done and not stop when the County resisted, Lake and Mariposa would be our town village now and it would be thriving. Dale Trader and a group of his friends in Pasadena stuck it out and never ever took no for an answer. Without even stationary let alone a "office" they made the City Council serve them. What Altadena really needs is to "Man up" (Women too its an inclusive term...)

I hear our area in Altadena was an enterprise zone when we bought the store in 2007.....but we didn't know it. We could have taken advantage of that and maybe not be in the situation we're in today if we had. Why didn't we know?

Lori, what is an enterprise zone and how could that have helped you (or not)?

Thanks Ed, I checked them out. Too bad Lori didn't know.

The Enterprise zone in Altadena was actually more or less dead a decade ago. the woman who ran it for the County was charged with nepotism and misappropriation nad found guilty and no one ever seemed to get hired to replace her. It was part of a pasadena/Altadena Joint Enterprise Zone. The Pasadena side, I HATE to say this,ALWAYS ran much better than the Altadena side and in fact it got to the point that the County folks were so unhelpful I'd just send people to the Pasadena staff who were more than helpful, but often located folks into Pasadena. Pasadena has EXPANDED its program. Once again, do we REALLY want the County to "help" us?

The only way for Altadena to recover its lost prominence and vitality is to reestablish three things: the tourists, civically minded millionaires and a trolley line up Lake Avenue.

Eco-tourism in our mountains, with the final reestablishment of the Altadena Crest Trail to connect with the Pacific Ocean and the Pacific Rim Trail, would be a wonderful destination for more hikers than have been seen in Altadena since pre World War II.

At one time recently, the Zane Grey Estate was going to become a bed and breakfast, establishing a place where eco-tourists could stay overnight before venturing into our wilds.

An additional perfect place for a guesthouse for eco-tourists would be the Old Lodge at Hygeia which is just at the base of the Sam Merrill Trail to Echo Mountain.
http://www.traillink.com/trail/lower-sam-merrill-trail.aspx

Also, reestablishment of a trolley line up North Lake Avenue to the mountains would bring tourists and shoppers alike, helping reinvigorate dining, entertainment and retail that now exists and invite more of what is lacking in Altadena, meaning higher sales tax revenue leading to the possibility of cityhood.
http://avenuetotheskylakeavenuepasadena.blogspot.com/2009/08/recent-proposal-of-revival-of-pasadena.html

In the past, civically minded wealthy residents of Altadena, like Gartz, McNally, Grey, Green and others took a lead in Altadena civic affairs and made good things happen. Where are the civically minded wealthy in Altadena today in all this discourse about the sad state of affairs? With the recent Billionaire Club of Bill and Melinda Gates, Warren Buffet and Ted Turner et al clamoring to give back their riches to society, couldn’t the same happen with Altadena's very wealthy citizens?

Hopefully as a start towards a new there “there”, the new owners of Webster’s will remodel their storefront into something historic looking to match the look of the Altadena Hardware Block on Mariposa. Webster’s storefronts need large display windows to make their interiors vibrant and inviting again, and a soda fountain sounds like exactly the right prescription.

What I think Dale means is that in the distant past these wealthy Altadena industrialists who lived and raised their families here and "invested in business opportunities that either made them more money or created groups/organizations that they themselves enjoyed" took pride in and were likely more vocal about their contributions.
I think this process of 'giving back' to the community still exists (although I have scant information as to what level its happening). What's changed is that its not fashionable in 2011 to flaunt one's wealthy status (at least not in the civic arena) and as such these acts are to some degree taking place 'under the radar' (if at all).

It’s a pleasure to discuss imaginative ideas for the future in an open forum, particularly since we are starting from such a low point; it makes the possibilities seem endless.
First some clichés: All that’s old is new again, what goes around comes around, good times never last and bad times never last, history has a habit of repeating itself, make big plans because you often only realize a small portion of them.
The world has changed, but our mountains and trails and nature are the same. We already have first class trails which connect with the other San Gabriel mountain trails to the backcountry including the Pacific Rim Trail which goes far north and south on the ridge line. Altadena’s built environment pre World War II is what is so charming about the town. Most of the post World War II built environment is very forgettable. Sierra Madre has refurbished their shopping village with street trees and street lamps as they had back in the 1920’s, and restored some historic facades on Baldwin like the Shirley Hotel and on Sierra Madre Blvd. like the Sierra Madre Playhouse.
Even though our world has changed, many of us would still like to visit a real world with real world nature and real world charm, not just experience it virtually. Walking, hiking, biking, horseback riding, sightseeing, all part of Eco-tourism, are all on the rise and Eco-tourism are the greenest dollars we’ll ever see.

Streetcar systems are being built, refurbished and maintained in cities and towns all over this nation including San Diego, San Francisco, Portland and planned for Pasadena. The Presidential Bipartisan Commission on Deficit Reduction has just recommended we increase the gasoline tax by 15 cents a gallon, dedicating the new revenue to spending on transport. The future of town and city public transportation and community connectivity will be streetcars.

What resonates in my head is, the only way to predict the future we will live in is to plan that future and "Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone will be a living thing, asserting itself with ever-growing insistency. Remember that our sons and grandsons are going to do things that would stagger us. Let your watchword be order and your beacon beauty. Think big".
Daniel Burnham, Chicago architect. (1846-1912)

I think that Dale has some very good ideas about promoting tourism and getting a trolley up Lake. But, sadly, most of Altadena's past millionaires did not invest here, they put their money in Pasadena or Mt Lowe, and elsewhere. Most came here to retire and wanted it QUIET and for themselves and their rich pals: they were the ones who protested in 1907 when the Mariposa Hotel, just limping along, leased out space to the Model Grocery. They claimed this would destroy the town's charm, and turn it into a commercialized hellhole. There has long been a "just leave us alone" contingent in town, alongside those who want more shops and services. The two times Altadena boomed were when many outsiders came in and swelled the population, in the 1920s, and again post war. Of course the momentum from that carried along for years, until middleclass flight and all the battles over school desegregation.

Yes, of course Altadena needs and deserves a Town Center. Is Altadena's property tax money somehow less relevant than other cities and townships in Los Angeles county?

And while were on the subject, Altadena could use a good dinner house or three, i.e., fine food, (steaks, fish, poultry, w/bar and music) - like Taylors Steakhouse or the DISH restaurant in La Canada. Back in the 50's and 60's Altadena had a good selection of these types of piano bar restaurants with fine food for its residents. The Eldorado restaurant near Eaton Canyon (Altadena Dr & New York Dr.) comes to mind - but was washed away by the floods of '69. The Venetian on N. Lake Ave across from the old 'Headliner Cafe' was another great piano bar hotspot. Certainly there are enough well heeled residents in Altadena to spend a measly $20 to $28 a plate for some good food, nice atmosphere and music perhaps. So lets also focus on improving the current non-existent 'fine dining' experience in Altadena. There are plenty of fast food franchises, burger joints and pizza outlets in Altadena and now it is TIME for Altadena to have a fine dinnerhouse once again. I think most residents would agree it is a hassle having to drive three or four miles down into Pasadena to get a decent dinner.

"I think most residents would agree it is a hassle having to drive three or four miles down into Pasadena to get a decent dinner.".... uh, not really.

Dennis- As to Rite Aid the silly man who owns that development wants to turn it into a storage unit facility. Thats his plan as soon as the existing leases are up, and I don't thing maintenance or improvement to the existing is part of his "vision" He is a guy who has illegally installed a vineyard in an area controlled by the Coastal Commission and has been in litigation with them forever. His plan for that corner would be a disaster, but how we prevent that, again I do not know, especially when some "Community leadership" is so easily purchased.

Lincoln and Altadena- I think her building permits have lapsed and that could be a really big problem, The County has been known to make people come up to the present code when that happens and there is no way the building meets the structural revisions that went into effect after it's construction started. This means it may be impossible for the present owner to finish, but worse yet, something that makes the land worth less than land value, because it must be demolished before anything can be done there. Much as it won't meet the present code, its a well built hard to demolish structure. Maybe we should volunteer to help her with the County?

Daniel, if this is the case, I have a couple of questions: Not that this corner could look worse than it does now, but who in Altadena is reviewing and approving the remodeling plans? And is the Altadena Chamber of Commerce and Town Council actively involved?

Thanks to Daniel I followed this link, and was sorry to find the most underwhelming "remodel" imaginable. I guess they are desperate to get a tenant in, and want to appear to be making noises to improve this moribund "shopping center" and doing as little as possible to it at the same time. Since there's no change of use or major construction (not even a real re-do of parking lot) I doubt the owner has to go to Town Council or Land Use. That this largest and most accessible piece of commercial property in Altadena will remain so unattractive and unimaginative with acres of asphalt in front is just a real disappointment. . . .

Daniel, thanks for the link. I'll make some calls and see if they will be needing or planning to do a hearing. I did hear about these plans in an article I did about Altadena owners of a gym in Pasadena (http://altadena.patch.com/articles/crossfit) but was not sure about the time line. These guys, the gym owners, did say they might be interested in putting a Cross Fit gym in Altadena, and suggested this location might work for them if they like how the remodel goes.

Dan- OK I went to the site. There is no remodel proposed there except replacing the now crumpled sign and actually replanting the dead planters. Pretty small "investment" after almost fifty years of returns. Ken Balder had actually contacted the guy at one point and asked him to build a series of commercial rental units more to the front of the property, but that was, both Ken's best ever Land Use idea and a total non starter with the owner.

Interesting, Steve. I have some calls out. It could be that they have not yet applied for the remodel, or maybe as Michelle says, the scope of work is so minimal that they don't need permits. I'll try to figure it out.

They do need a Building permit. If they meet the landscape requirements they will not need anythiong from Zoning since a large sign is already approved

More info on this project from County Planning. They have a pending permit from the county to "restripe parking lot, improve w/ accessible stalls, install planters, facade and storefront repair and upgrade, add trellis at facade, pole sign repair, rework building signage" The project does not require a hearing. This comes from a planner who looked up the permit, not one who is actually handling the project, so I am hoping to have a little more for an article when I hear from the right planner there.