Montrose has a great business district, too, though many of the mom-and-pops have gone under.

I think Altadena's elongated shape and cultural broadness may be one of the things that keeps us from having a town center (though I would like to see more intentional effort go into the Lake Ave. between Altadena and Calaveras).

We have the Latino and black businesses along Lincoln, the Armenian corridor on Allen, and in the middle--well, the middle is where the communities tend to wash together like windswept waves. Rather than be more like Sierra Madre or Montrose, which are culturally less diverse, maybe we should aim to promote and define our three major business areas and our major cultures.

"Lincoln Crossings" means nothing and is a moniker put on us by a redevelopment committee. Names such as "Koreatown", "Little Tokyo", and "Chinatown" in L.A. grew organically out of the people who loved there. I'd like to see something like that in Altadena.

Wanting to improve a place shows that you love it, not that you hate it.

Interesting that your two bookends, implied opposites by way of occupation, were such great friends. Wildly creative minds come full circle.

As for the rest, well-stated, but then there is RiteAide. It's like having that one prson in the family who just won't shower or be civil.

What we have in Altadena that neither Montrose or Sierra Madre does is a diverse and welcoming community. What I have found here is a warmth and generosity of spirit even from those who have few material goods. As evidenced in the fire of '09 we received and care than we ever got from our "family values" neighbors in well-heeled neighborhoods.

Doris, maybe we can send that bad boy to SM for a shave and wax. Zak, I agree. And Laura, yes, yes, yes. Nico, Altadena comes through in a pinch, doesn't it?

[About this column: Altadena resident Karin Bugge writes about the outdoors, animals, gardening, and other pursuits of Altadena residents. She will also be writing a "Pet of the Week" feature for Patch. She blogs at http://altadenahiker.blogspot.com/]

So, what is the pet of the weak? Which animal best represents Altadonia?

I think, for me, the fact that Altadena is NOT "defined" is what works. You're welcome, however you may look. Your quirks are not seen as quirks, but just who you are. It puts everyone on the same footing. I have felt more welcome in Altadena after just two years than the ten+ I spent in Burbank. Because no one has been urging me that "I could be better!" They just let me be... and by doing that, I'm already better! Yes, it's hard to get approvals or changes done. But that's not always bad. Change for change's sake often leads to losing your heart and soul. I love Altadena as it is.

Let's not beat around the bush here - people love living in Altadena bc it's a cheaper place to live - however, recently w/the economy, housing crisis and people losing their jobs - not so much...I'm sure we'd all love to live in a million dollar house in Sierra Madre but could our residents afford to keep that house up? I agree w/Karin they do seem to have a lot of salon's but I'd rather have that than a liquor store on every corner.

My wife works in Sierra Madre and we live in Altadena. I call SM Mayberry. It's very whitebread and wholesome, almost to the point of annoying. When I walk into Beantown, I get a snooty vibe like everyone knows I'm not a town resident. They have their share of friendly crackers too and low crime.

Karin, I loved this latest blog post. It had me thinking anew about all the things that we so appreciate about living in Altadena. It also got me thinking about what core values all of us between the Feynman/Zorthian bookends might discover that could unite us, one block, one neighborhood, one census tract at a time.

Author and systems thinker Margaret Wheatley has a quote that I love: "There is no greater power than a community discovering what it cares about."

What are the positives in Altadena that we all care about that might bring us together in productive ways to effect positive change and the community's health and well-being?

Thanks again for your humor-laced and always-insightful commentary.

As to why we live here, Lisa, I've got to disagree with you on that. I chose Altadena first, and went house hunting second. I chose Altadena because we have the best trails and view, and because people can grow lettuce and corn in the front yard and keep chickens, goats, and horses in the back. If only our gateways complemented and provided more resources for all this loveliness

Let's face it -- Altadena is like the relative nobody wants to claim -- as far as the County is concerned. And why? Excuse me as I get onto my soap box......because we are not an incorporated city. We will remain the no man's land town as long as we stay a town, and a part of the unincorporated LA County. La Canada is a city, Sierra Madre is a city -- we are not. We have no real government or decision making group. We get whatever attention is leftover after the rest of LA County is taken care of. That is why we have no unified direction. No focus, no direction, lots of empty retail. Thank God for individual groups like ACONA, The Chamber of Commerce, Town Council and Christmas Tree Lane Assoc. These groups are great, but have no budgets and no authority to change anything and from what I understand, don't work together. Unless we incorporate......nothing will change, no matter how many times we discuss the issues.

I agree with Lisa, except I would rather live in Europe or Santa Monica. I bought my house in Altadena because the only other affordable place to buy at the time was South Central L.A. There is a price to pay for cheap real estate: Poor government services, no decent shopping, no decent hair salons, a library that is full of computers instead of books and is closed on Sundays, poor schools, riff raff pothead neighbors, junk vehicles, drug dealers, liquor stores, nieghborhood punks, and neighbors who don't care.

But I don't care. It's a cheap place to live. In poor economic times, the poorest areas get hit the hardest. With the exception of the Northeast of Lake Avenue area neighborhoods, Altadena is, has been and probably always will be a low rent, cheap place to live. It will never be like Sierra Madre.

Are you dissing my pharmacy again???

Oh, boo hoo. What you need is a Sierra Madre Sue! Here's her latest:

BUY AN ALVERNO JAGUAR DISCOUNT CARD AND YOU'LL BE HELPING MY ALMA MATER AND EMPLOYER, ALVERNO HIGH SCHOOL, AND OUR FABULOUS STUDENTS, WHILE RECEIVING GREAT DISCOUNTS AT A BUNCH OF LOCAL BUSINESSES FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR!  ALL FOR ONLY $10.00!
ALVERNO JAGUAR CARD:
CAFE 322 - ONE OF THE BEST OFFERS ON THE CARD, AND THE BEST VENUE IN SIERRA MADRE FOR LIVE MUSIC!
T. BOYLE'S TAVERN - WHAT? DISCOUNTS ON BEER EVERYTIME YOU GO IN THERE?  YES!!!
SIERRA MADRE PIZZA CO. - THE BEST PIE IN TOWN AND THE NICEST PEOPLE
CHIQUITA BONITA - HANDS DOWN, THE BIGGEST VALUE ON THE CARD, AT ONE OF THE MOST INEXPENSIVE PLACES TO BEGIN WITH!
FRESCO'S - GREAT BREAKFAST & LUNCH, GREAT SERVICE!
MATT DENNY'S - LIVE MUSIC, PLENTY OF TVs FOR SPORTS, OUTDOOR PATIO.
THE MARKET ON HOLLY - AWESOME NEW PLACE IN OLD TOWNE!  OWNED BY ONE OF OUR ALVERNO PARENTS.
RANCHERO MEXICAN RESTAURANT/DUARTE LOCATION - CITY OF MY BIRTH.
NOW THAT YOU'VE READ MY PITCH, SCROLL DOWN FOR INFORMATION ON HOW TO PURCHASE THE JAGUAR CARD VIA THE ALVERNO WEBSITE.  THERE'S A PLACE IN THE ORDERING PROCESS WHERE YOU CAN ENTER MY NAME AS THE PERSON TO CREDIT.  I ALSO HAVE A STACK WITH ME WHEN I'M OUT AND ABOUT IF YOU WANT TO BUY ONE IN PERSON.
THERE ARE SELLER'S PRIZES AT STAKE AND I ALREADY BOASTED TO THE WHOLE SCHOOL THAT I'M GOING TO SELL THE MOST, SO I'M COUNTING ON YOUR SUPPORT!
READ ON, FRIENDS......

In living here in Altadena since May, I've noticed that anyone who tries to do something for the community or take pride in what they do (i.e. Webster's & Patticakes) gets wrapped up in bureaucratic red-tape. Let's face it...Altadena is the red-headed stepchild of the foothills and gets the short end of the stick every time. Over a month after the windstorm and we're still not 100% cleaned up...

We moved to Altadena from Pasadena when my fourth kid was born because we needed a bigger house and could get one here for what we sold our bungalow for there. But I also chose it because it is NOT whitebread, it's not uptight like Pasadena, and while sometimes it is difficult to live with so many individuals it's also exciting and rewarding.

We could have bought in Washington state near my sister for about half what we paid here, but the bigotry at that time was a much higher price than I wanted to pay. My Mexican-American husband looked too much like an Indian and we got a lot of baaaad looks.

I like my street. I like (most of) my neighbors. I like that my kids grew up with diversity of culture, nationality, ethnicity, and income. I like my blue house when all the other houses are white and no one says I have to paint it to match.

As for services--have you seen Pasadena's streets? The streets in my neighborhood get fresh slurry every few years and are in much better shape than Pasadena's. My letter carriers are friendly. The UPS guy is friendly. Lincoln Avenue Water may be a bit behind the times, but the employees give great service when it is needed. And I do think our supervisor takes a great interest in Altadena, given the large area he oversees.

So yes, people may come for the prices, but I hope they stay for the community.

Monica, how does it differ from a town council? I read the description and the two groups sound alike, although it does say the MAC has greater influence but doesn't spell out how or under what circumstances.

I've always liked Altadena and I like ever more since working with Altadena Heritage on their new website. Now that you mention it, Karin, a few more group hugs would not be a bad thing. http://altadenaheritage.com

When the kids could no longer afford Echo Park, Silver Lake and Mount Washington, they piled onto Altadena. Now it's off the charts expensive and Highland Park is on the trendy fast track. Looking to invest? follow the smell of turpentine.

Altadena is almost perfect. We just need a evening diner or three, a better supermarket and a tourist economy that will employ more locals locally. If the trade off to get those things were homogenization and gentrification, I'd happily go without them forever. If we couldn't be chunky, funky and odd,we'd be just another annoying nowhere that once was a somewhere. Invest? hopefully Altadena will always remain enough of itself that the Hoarde of would be youthful real estate barons will never find it hospitable. They are like a herd of grasshoppers devouring all localism and culture,

Laura I really like the rental equipment idea: I've always thought an alpine-themed cafe that also rented out gear and could serve as a hub for linking people with tours would be an incredible business up around Lake and Mariposa. There actually is a company that takes people rappelling down waterfalls above Altadena, and I think some sort of mountain bike tour company might also be feasible. There are also a lot of meet-up hiking groups that use Echo Mountain - a cafe open early with the alpine theme would become a logical meet-up point. Anyway, that's just me letting my imagination run wild, but it might work if you could find a good location that does not cost way too much to rent.

@Laura and Ryan: from using terms like "whitebread" and "crackers", sounds to me like y'all have some racially based personal issues you need to work out with yourselves. The demographics between Altadena and Pasadena are not that much different. Altadena has similar numbers of whites, more blacks and fewer hispanics. Additionally, there is a huge income diversity in Pasadena as well.

I had dreams of opening just such an equipment-rental/sales, horse tack sort of place in the half-built shopping center at Lincoln and Altadena. With coffee, community bulletin board, meeting space....open early and late. Next to the brick oven pizza joint that had also signed up to be in that center.

Ahhh, dreams! I even had a name picked out for my joint!

Altadena as a town needs to figure out how to engage the USFS and investors in a radical return to the old relationship the forest had with operators of tourist businesses. Tent camps like Camp Curry even with programs of music and education, dedicated equestrian and mountian bike trails and campgrounds, diners on the ACH, and then we should revamp our commercial districts to serve that. This town has NEVER recovered from the ACH being built in La Canada and moving all of our tourist business to there.Never. But the good news is there is enough Forest to share!
@ Robbie- excellent idea! How do we help get that shopping center built so you can do that?
@ Laura- no I dont mean kids who just want a home, I mean the eternal hypsters who find a scene and flip houses and communities until there is nothing worthy left and then go destroy the next place.

Wow, what a rolling conversation. I live in NW Pasadena and have long enjoyed shopping in Altadena. For many years there's been a laid back attitude that's generally been pretty welcoming. I'm afraid that those who've come only because they can't afford to live elsewhere are missing out on the character and characters that are a part of the area. On the east end of town you have a more suburban feel, in central more of arts and techie community and to the west the good folks who love their horses. I've always been able to meet interesting folks in Altadena. Sierra Madre has other good things. My dentist is in Sierra Madre and I enjoy visiting the city. The town has its own little theatre, you have love that. I love the idea of a tack and tea or coffee sort of place. Maybe folks could work a small business much as they do in Portland. Micro business of all sorts can be found in parking lots.

Mr. Altadena, is that "special district" for real? I'm pretty gullible.

It's an awfully nice view of below from the lot where the Rite Aide is. There's that wonderful gelato place there too. If you want to attract eco-tourism, a place needs a hotel and a camp ground. Just be careful not to destroy the very wilderness sought to explore by developing in it or way too close to it. If all the good stuff that exists in Altadena now is nurtured, success is sure to follow.

Lettuce knot shun the Adventure Pass, and its porpoise. Eco-tourism might be a way to save the foothills from crafty builders of fire line homes whose occupants don't like public trails in their backyards.

NPS is extending the public comment period for the draft study report to February 13, 2012.
 
There are several ways to comment. You can provide your comments online at
http://www.nps.gov/pwro/sangabriel/index.htm, you can send an email to pwr_sangabriel@nps.gov, or you can send a letter to:
 
 
National Park Service - Planning and Environmental Compliance 
San Gabriel Watershed and Mountains Special Resource Study
333 Bush Street, Suite 500
San Francisco, CA 94104

I love all these high flying ideas, some of which are both complex and grand, but first, can we just go back to that one small [?] thing--the unwashed Rite-Aide and it's lot? A really good go-to market would be so welcome, with all the things that might go with such a place. Or even Ralph's. If they would lose their dim-witted "ghetto" fixation, even they could give us a market worth going to. We're not all wealthy, most of us aren't, but we are smart and creative and would patronize a place that recognizes that.

@doris- hey if you have the life energy to put into making an absent arrogant landlord or a distant un caring hostile corporation do something good for our community, please be my guest. Myself, I am done with futility. Thats why I say eat at Patron, Fair Oaks Burger, Panda and Bill's and shop with people who are at least attempting to serve our community like Baja Ranch and King Ranch. That only takes training ME and YOU to drive the car shorter distances. And the forest stuff is More doable than the stuff with Ralphs and Rite Aid, if only because at least the Forest Service has to pretend to respond to this community and over time will have to. No such thing with corporations and people who think they are king.

But like I said, if you want to work on that, be my guest.

Well while I am an ecologist and was when w wee youth long before its fashion, I don't pretend the Angeles is an unspoiled wilderness because it isnt and hasn't been for at least 170 years since the Mexican Cattle ranchers burned it all off. A hotel IN THE FOREST would be excellentas would many many many more tent camping sites and regular camp sites. This view by some including the USFS that they are protecting some virgin wilderness by closing down access trails campsites and amenities is pure bunckum and totally untruthful. But I am all for restoration and reforestation projects, one of the three reasons this forest exists that the USFS is busily not ful filling

Steve, are you saying that in order to get an upscale market or charming bistro, we first have to eat a whole lot of hamburgers? I think the reason we drive elsewhere is because many of us don't like fast food; many of us are in pursuit of fresh seafood, fine wine, good cheese. And I know for certain we don't drive in a single direction -- to one particular destination -- to get it. Someone who lives in Altadena but works in Culver City, for example, spends the dollars in Culver City.

Karen- YES!!! BUY LOTS HERE AND CAPITAL WILL FLOW HERE, People dont believe businesses can do well in Altadena and until they do we can talk to them till we are purple in the face and so what? Go to Patron. Go to Panda, go to Bills if you dont like hamburgers. Just BUY HERE because until we do, no one is going to come.

I agree with you about El Patron, I personally dont like it. Its as bad as a Red Onion chain imitation Mexican place. I much prefer little holes in the wall places. But when taking people who dont like the real thing out, I go there instead of a chain so they will make it and end the rumor that no sit down place in Altadena can. Go to Fair Oaks Burger- its marvelous!

And I ADORE Senior Fish- I drive down to S Pas for the Scallop and Shrimp Burrito. It is a world beater!!!! WOULD L O V E to have them here...Hmmmmmmm! Maybe in the Rite Aid shopping center?

I am so sorry I forgot to mention Mota's!!! Good Place where I do eat.

We are looking for a new house. We have an amazing house in the golf course area, but really want to downsize.
We're not toooooo picky about what kind of house, but we require more than half an acre for our little urban homestead. We have chickens and raise all of our produce.
We've looked all over. Pasadena, Sierra Madre, Eagle Rock, Arcadia, So Pas, San Marino, even Los Feliz. We are not looking for cheap, we're looking for a large lot.
But after looking at all these areas, at properties in the million plus range, including a 2.5 acre property in Eagle Rock, I said to my husband - "I just do not want to leave Altadena. I like it here, I don't want to live anywhere else." He agreed. And we won't have to deal with the child revolution, if we decided to move to any other town.
I wish there was a thriving town center, not cute or quaint, just good. I'd like to be able to do ALL of my shopping in Altadena with small local businesses. In this economy, I am not holding my breath. So I will continue to frequent Websters and Altadena Hardware, Steve's, etc., produce as much as my own food as I can, to avoid Trader Joe's and Whole Foods.
There are a LOT of us who are here because this is the community that we WANT to live in , not HAVE to live in.

Wonderfully stated, Terry. And I'm so glad you're staying in town. (I agree with you about Steve's, Websters, and Alt Hardware -- they're the holy trinity of the north Lake shopping district. Leslie -- I'll check out Mota's on Lincoln.)

Terry- central and West Altadena have some Great properties. Contact Ben McGinty he knows of a Altadena house that will be for sale soon that is in original condition and is just what you are looking for.

And yeah, Where on earth would one move to?

Re North Lake businesses: Merit Cleaners is kind of a crossroads where I often run into friends or nice strangers I'm glad to encounter. It has been Altadena family-owned for years and is now run by the smart and philosophical Seiko, who works hard to make it a going concern. I'm always happy to see her.

Just an example, and by no means is this the norm but we have very close friends of ours who bought into La Canada, a "fixer upper" @ $900,000, put another $250,000 into remodels to make it "perfect" and now also have a pretty nice size mortgage payment, property tax and upkeep. They both have fabulous jobs but my point is most people in Altadena are ok with living in homes worth half that and also don't have a big mortgage payment or property tax to go with it.

Anyone wanna buy a house in Central Pasadena for $500k? It's a fixer-upper.

I wish, if there were, they'd want my dump! lol

You can buy a REALLY REALLY wonderful; house in central Altadena for 500K. And for a million there are fantastic properties here that are almost impossible to duplicate anyplace south of Santa Barbara

Shhhhhhh I forgot DONT TELL ANYONE

Sierra Madre is no Altadena. I can sit down and get a cheeseburger for under $9. Imagine that in Sierra Madre.... Besides this, Altadena has more past and present famous / noteworthy authors, publishers, scientists, inventors than Sierra Madre ever hoped to. The homes in Sierra Madre are horrendously overpriced as well. No thanks. All Altadena needs is a couple of dinnerhouse restaurants, some TLC / facelifts along Lake Ave to Woodbury Rd. Commercial property owners in Altadena should also lower the rents to fill the vacancies - better to collect some rental income than none.

Gary- Thats why I voted against the CSD and suggested we rewrite to have the owners chose one of the three predominant styles already existing on lake, but sadly, it got rammed through and the CSD passed with the best of intentions is just one more burden on would be Altadena business people diverting them to elsewhere

@ Brian- you are 100% correct

@Gray - Obviously we don't need more check cashing outfits or nail salons; most East Altadena residents would agree with this. It also seems that the CSD mentioned would probably not allow a check cashing operation on N. Lake Street anyhow - it wouldn't fit with the general plan and million dollar homes a half mile east on Mendocino St. Just have to drive down south of Washington Blvd for all that.

To all who have commented -- points well taken. Nothing is going to change unless we become human doings and not human beings making comments on a blog. Some like Steve Lamb, Lori Webster, Ed Meyers, etc. are and have been doers. But until Altadena gets an organized LOUD and UNITED VOICE -- these subjects will just be topics of endless discussion and no action. At this point we all know that Altadena wants a Trader Joe's, more retail variety, less check cashing/nail salons/liquor stores/storefront churches, less empty blighted retail space, something done about the "ghetto" Ralphs (not my euphemism), and an over haul of the Rite Aid shopping center. No matter how much opinion is exchanged, NOTHING will happen without community action.

Am I the only one who absolutely HATES the idea of a Trader Joe's?

Are you kidding me Laura, they are fabulous? have you ever eaten Armenian food? Not only is it healthy but it's D-lish!

Armenian food is GREAT. I like both the Lebanese Kitchen and Bliss.

The Town Council has failed, sadly, as an institution because the reflexive question most members ask is "What will the County/Antonovich think about this?" and then they attempt to satisfy what they believe the answer to that question is. They have the intellectual and emotional content of courtiers. not representatives of a free people. Until that changes, or until the people of Altadena ignore the ATC and speak for themselves, things will not change. And the ATC has been working on a Farmers Market on and off for twenty years already. The answer is its not possible to serve the people and make the County happy. As Abe Lincoln said, quoting Jesus, "No man can serve two masters. He will love one and despise the other." Since the ATC is serving the County, guess who it is they despise?

idk about Bliss but you can go to the Altadena Food Fair on New York/Allen in Altadena across from Pattycakes and get homemade Armenian food and it is family owned by a wonderful Armenian family! ;)

Bliss is in the section of Altadena that was annexed to Pasadena against its will in 1960. (Bet I'm more or less the last living person who knows about this) And Yes, I've been meaning to try the new sidewalk cafe in front of the Altadena Food Fair. I bet its excellent, the produce there is.

np - make sure you ask for the homemade Tabouli - The recipe is a healthful, delicious Mediterranean food recipe with cracked wheat, mint, garlic, lemon, tomatoes, green onions. Awesome place!

Trader Joe's is okay. I just don't like buying shrink wrapped produce. They started taking it out of the plastic, but frankly, I don't want to feed my family food grown overseas.
A nice, locally owned market, with fresh produce, good meat, decent bread.
sigh.

Prices are excellent Laura that's why I go there, I'm on a budget like everybody else. They have 5 stars on yelp, go check them out.

What a great conversation. If I had money, I'd open that alpine cafe. I have a name picked out! Someday, maybe.

I can't wait to try Mota's.

Surprised that Patch is not covering this upcoming meeting...anyone concerned about Altadena's lack of services planning on attending? This article appears on the Altadena Blog. http://www.altadenablog.com/

Saturday, March 17, 2012
County to start "visioning process" to update Altadena community standards

by Timothy Rutt

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